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Thermoelectric generator for uncertain times

Adaś Niezgódka 57387 65

TL;DR

  • A thermoelectric generator built from a 12V/60W Peltier cell uses heat instead of electricity to produce power.
  • A candle heats one side of the cell, reversing the normal Peltier effect and feeding a HW 105 step-up module.
  • With about 100 °C temperature difference, the setup produced 3 V and could start boosting from 0.9 V.
  • The boosted output can charge a phone and light a room, but the recovered power is only about 5% of the cell’s rated electrical power.
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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
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  • #61 20492353
    Staszek_Staszek
    Level 34  
    cranky wrote:
    It occurred to me that cooling systems from a laptop could be used for cooling. Maybe the efficiency could be improved, and the elements are free, easily available and ... terribly unsightly.

    By increasing the temperature difference rather only the efficiency can be increased. If a burner is used, sufficient cooling will be provided by the flow of air to the flame. Elements are not cheap because copper oxide slowly reacts with moist air to form copper carbonate, commonly known as patina. To do it in a human way (that is how it is done) you would have to buy a constantan wire. The cheapest spool I've seen online is Wed. = 0.3 mm, length = 100 m. So for PLN 300 (you need to add a protective tube) you could make a source composed of 1000 thermocouples with a diameter of approx. 20 cm and a potential of approx. 55 mV/°C.
    The permissible temperature of this system with protective tubes is 500 °C. So 55 mV•500 = 27 V. Anyone can calculate the internal resistance. The resistance of 1 m of 0.3 mm wire is 7 Ω. Add the resistance of the copper wire and we know everything about the efficiency of such a source.
    A cheaper solution is the T thermocouple system (NiCr-NiAl) which can work without a sheath. You could do it here for 200 PLN. I do not count the costs of "crocheting".
    If someone has a fantasy and cash, they can buy 1000 ready-made thermocouples in bulk, they will not have to weld the ends.
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  • #62 20493321
    PPK
    Level 30  
    hmmmm. I have a constantan tape somewhere, 20mm wide and about 1m long, from old stock (Bomis). I have to look for. What shape would you need to cut?
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  • #64 20980154
    Sammy180
    Level 1  
    stachu_l wrote:
    If in series, then 0.6A 48V and in parallel, then 6A 4.8V, assuming the same operating parameters in both cases - temperatures of the hot and cold sides of each cell.

    A layman`s question: if we get as much as 48 V in a series connection, and the manufacturer of, for example, TEC1-12706 cells states that the maximum voltage for them is 15.4 V, will it not mean that all the cells in the system will burn?
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  • #65 20980498
    stachu_l
    Level 38  
    It will not mean burning all the cells - unfortunately, as a layman, you need to familiarize yourself with the series connection of voltage sources and receivers (e.g. resistors) and study what voltages and where they occur.
  • #66 21331643
    michalmajewskifirmow
    Level 6  
    I'm thinking of attaching a few of them to the radiator.
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Topic summary

✨ The discussion revolves around the use of Peltier cells as thermoelectric generators, particularly in uncertain times when alternative power sources may be needed. The original poster shares their experiments with a 12V/60W Peltier cell, exploring its potential to generate electricity from thermal energy. Responses highlight historical applications of thermoelectric generators, such as those used in WWII and space probes, and suggest improvements for efficiency, including using water cooling and optimizing heat sinks. Participants debate the practicality of using Peltier cells versus traditional thermocouples and discuss various configurations and materials to enhance performance. The conversation also touches on the feasibility of using these devices for emergency power needs, such as charging phones during outages.
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FAQ

TL;DR: A single TEC1-12706 Peltier module produced 2.25 W at a 110 °C temperature difference [Elektroda, Adaś Niezgódka, post #19895886]; "The goal should be to reach 3 W" [Elektroda, krzbor, post #19896489] Simple heat-to-USB rigs work yet stay <5 % efficient. Why it matters: small thermoelectric setups give emergency phone charging from any flame.

Quick Facts

• Open-circuit voltage: 4.7 V @ ΔT ≈ 110 °C [Elektroda, Adaś Niezgódka, post #19895886] • Peak output: 2.25 W with 2–3 Ω load [Elektroda, 19895886] • Hot-side limit for TEG-grade cells: 320 °C, cold ≤ 180 °C [Custom Thermoelectric, 2014] • Candle-lamp generators ship at 4.5 W, 12 V DC [Elektroda, mmm777, post #19894788] • TEC1-12706 cooling rating: 60 W input @ 15 V, 6 A (datasheet)

What efficiency should I expect?

Measured electrical output (2.25 W) versus estimated candle heat (~50 W) gives ≈4.5 % efficiency. Lab figures for cooling-grade modules rarely exceed 5 % in generator mode [Elektroda, Krzysztof Kamienski, post #19892428]

Will a 48 V string destroy 15 V-rated cells?

No. In generator mode each cell produces only a few volts, so series voltage adds without reverse biasing any element. Maximum temperature, not voltage, is the failure limit [Elektroda, stachu_l, post #20980498]

What temperatures are safe for Peltier modules?

Cooling-grade cells tolerate roughly 100 – 150 °C hot-side before solder joints fail [Elektroda, Andrzej42, post #19956386] TEG-grade parts use high-temp alloys and survive up to 320 °C hot-side [Custom Thermoelectric, 2014].

Are TEG-labelled modules from China more efficient?

True TEG modules use Bi₂Te₃ legs optimised for generation and give 10–15 % higher Seebeck coefficient than cooling versions. Some sellers relabel cooling cells, so check for ≥200 °C rating and datasheet curve before buying [Elektroda, Gadon2012, post #19892786]

How should I connect several modules?

  1. Wire modules in series until open-circuit voltage exceeds your DC-DC start-up level (≥1 V).
  2. Keep load resistance near the sum of individual 2–3 Ω optimums.
  3. Isolate hot plates with a copper block and cool the other side with a fin or water loop. This balances currents and maximises power [Elektroda, Anonymous, post #19892476]

What’s an edge-case failure to watch?

Exceeding 150 °C can melt internal solder and short the couples, dropping voltage to zero even after cooling [Elektroda, Andrzej42, post #19956386]

Simple three-step build?

  1. Sandwich a TEC1-12706 between a copper candle plate and an aluminium CPU heatsink with thermal paste.
  2. Light a tea-light under the plate; attach a small fan to the heatsink.
  3. Feed the output through a HW-105 boost to a USB socket. Users reported phone charging within minutes [Elektroda, 19892224]

How many modules for 30 W?

Commercial stoves delivering 30 W use 6–8 high-grade TEGs at ΔT≈250 °C [Powerspot, Explorer-Home]. DIY would require roughly 12 TEC1-12706 units plus aggressive cooling [Elektroda, H3nry, post #19894819]

Any alternative emergency generators?

Hand-crank dynamos yield 5 – 10 W, but need effort. A cyclist can generate 21 Wh in two minutes of sprinting [YouTube, "Guy vs. Bike Dynamo"]. Photovoltaic panels provide higher daily Wh if sunlight is available [Elektroda, puchalak, post #19895018]
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