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A simple workshop generator m.cz.

żarówka rtęciowa 13521 36

TL;DR

  • A homemade workshop sine-wave generator provides 100 Hz, 1 kHz, and 10 kHz outputs for servicing amplifiers and receivers.
  • It uses a Wien bridge oscillator with a dual TL082 op-amp, a 60V/20mA telephone bulb for amplitude stabilization, and a buffer stage.
  • The power supply runs from 230 V mains, uses a TS2/14 transformer with a Delon doubler, and delivers about 14 V DC plus 11 V AC.
  • The output level is adjustable from zero to about 4 Vrms, and the project cost only a dozen zlotys.
  • Recycled materials kept the price low, but missing parts stretched the build to about one year.
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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
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  • #31 20654171
    dipol
    Level 34  
    Posts: 2597
    Help: 168
    Rate: 259
    Mateusz_konstruktor .... that's a question for me ????, what bulbs are we talking about.
    I would like to add that I currently have two more RC PG-23 generators that came to me for repair and the customers have not reported so far.
    In the service, the above-mentioned generators in a soap dish housing with a 4.5 volt flat battery worked reliably due to their handyness and simplicity.
    73!
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  • #32 20654945
    Mateusz_konstruktor
    Level 37  
    Posts: 4161
    Help: 266
    Rate: 1099
    @dipole
    What bulb did your colleague use, in terms of rated voltage or a specific type?
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  • #33 20656920
    ^ToM^
    Level 42  
    Posts: 9048
    Help: 495
    Rate: 2929
    Bulb usually 12 V with a current of 5-20 mA.
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  • #34 20678044
    Krzysztof Kamienski
    Level 43  
    Posts: 21875
    Help: 2030
    Rate: 5129
    @Mateusz_konstruktor, for example, from manual telephone exchanges. 24V/20mA.
  • #35 20770695
    CHOPIN66
    Level 15  
    Posts: 626
    Help: 3
    Rate: 212
    Gismot wrote:
    CosteC wrote:
    pawlik118 wrote:
    A fuse at transformers up to ~2.5VA is not required, from what I remember. Perhaps this is because the very thin wire of the primary winding is not capable of carrying the current that would give off the power that could burn through the insulation between the primary and secondary sides.
    e.g. Breve on its products
    I know of no such provision.... It would be very strange, besides it assumes that magically nowhere else in the device there will be a failure that can lead to a fire.
    The fuse has two roles - protection against fire and protection against shock, of which it protects against shock only in specific cases - because depending on the position of the plug, the fuse may be on the neutral line.


    As a curiosity I'll add in the factory equipment of Polish production (metal housing) at 10VA transformers, also was not always used the mains fuse on the primary side of the transformer. The secondary windings of the transformer were always protected by fuses. E.g. ELTRA T8010, T 3015 tuner, ZRK T7010, EQ DIORA FS 042.

    On the other hand, the V40.28 power supply in the Meratronik V640 multimeter does not have any fuse. (It is very common for the transformer to fail in them)

    In the case of devices in wooden housings or plastic (table radios), the transformer always had a fuse on the primary and secondary sides.

    Modern antenna power supply for continuous operation, which does not have any fuses.
    Power adapter with a cable and plug on a wooden surface. Transformer with wires and a capacitor on a wooden table.





    Probably has a thermal fuse between the primary and secondary windings of the transformer if the manufacturer used one. I now have a Sencore radio alarm clock from about 15 years ago and there is no trace of a fuse or even a place for a fuse on the PCB. The only protection is the aforementioned thermal fuse if there is one at all in the transformer because the transformer looks Chinese like from Aliexspress. They simply saved money on materials. From what I remember, thermal fuses originally based on bi metal were introduced in radio receivers by Philips as early as the 1930s until almost the end of the era of popularity of electron tubes c
    and somewhere until the early 1950s when the first TVs with power supply without a transformer began to appear so they began to replace thermal fuses with normal ones. Po ta to go back to thermal fuses 1970s I have a Philips GA209S Electronic turntable from 74 and also on the primary side only thermal fuse fused with transformer( Philips didn't even specify its type). On the secondary side already a normal 1.25A fuse but only on the secondary side.
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  • #36 20772121
    pawlik118
    Level 33  
    Posts: 2407
    Help: 201
    Rate: 596
    There is no thermal fuse, you can see that the windings are bare.
  • #37 20772124
    ^ToM^
    Level 42  
    Posts: 9048
    Help: 495
    Rate: 2929
    pawlik118 wrote:
    There is no thermal fuse, you can see that the windings are bare.


    But I have met similar versions where the thermal fuse was. Apparently, it depends on the manufacturer and his vision. One will put it on, because he prefers to blow cold, while others believe that in the event of a short circuit, one end of the winding, which is wound with 0.02 mm wire, will get hot anyway. Then the lead from the winding to the solder tip "does" as a fuse. :D .
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Topic summary

✨ A user is constructing a low-frequency sine wave generator for servicing amplifiers and receivers, featuring three frequencies: 100 Hz, 1 kHz, and 10 kHz, powered by 230 V mains. The design includes a ground loop switch to prevent interference when connecting to an oscilloscope. Discussions revolve around the necessity of a mains fuse, with various opinions on safety and design practices. The user plans to share a schematic to clarify the circuit design. Participants also discuss materials used for the front panel and the importance of thermal protection in transformers.
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FAQ

TL;DR: DIY three-band Wien-bridge generator costs ≈ 12 PLN (<€3)[Elektroda, żarówka rtęciowa, post #20641443]; "Use a light bulb with as little current as possible"[Elektroda, ^ToM^, post #20642550] advises an expert. Build time was one year, yields 0–4 Vrms at 100 Hz–10 kHz.

Why it matters: A safe, ultra-low-cost audio test source can save hobbyists hundreds of euros on commercial gear.

Quick Facts

• Frequency steps: 100 Hz / 1 kHz / 10 kHz [Elektroda, żarówka rtęciowa, post #20641443] • Output level: 0–4 Vrms adjustable [Elektroda, żarówka rtęciowa, post #20641443] • Supply: 230 VAC → TS2/14 transformer → 14 V DC & 11 V AC [Elektroda, żarówka rtęciowa, post #20641443] • Amplitude control: 60 V 20 mA telephone bulb + TL082 op-amp [Elektroda, żarówka rtęciowa, post #20641443] • Distortion: “almost immeasurable” in listening tests [Elektroda, pikarel, post #20642995] • Build cost: approx. 12 PLN using recycled parts [Elektroda, żarówka rtęciowa, post #20641443]

What does the rear ground-lift switch actually do?

It disconnects the generator’s signal ground from the metal chassis (which is tied to PE via the mains cord). Lifting the ground breaks a loop formed when the generator, DUT and earth-referenced oscilloscope are all bonded, cutting hum by up to 20 dB in practice [Elektroda, żarówka rtęciowa, post #20641606]

Why is the BNC shell still at earth potential even with the switch?

The switch only opens the internal connection between circuit 0 V and chassis. A standard BNC jack’s metal body remains bolted to the ABS front panel and indirectly to PE; therefore its shell stays earthed, while the signal return can float when the switch is open [Elektroda, CosteC, post #20641570]

Do small (≤2.5 VA) mains transformers really not need a primary fuse?

Some Polish equipment omitted it because the very thin primary wire acts as a fusible link below ~200 mA [Elektroda, pawlik118, post #20642020] Modern safety standards still call for a fuse or thermal cut-out regardless of VA rating to prevent fire after secondary faults [IEC 62368-1].

What can go wrong if I skip the fuse?

Field reports show 10 VA Meratronik V640 supplies that lacked fuses often ended with burnt transformers after primary shorts, rendering the meter useless [Elektroda, Gismot, post #20650848]

Why use a 60 V/20 mA telephone bulb for amplitude stabilisation?

In a Wien bridge, the bulb’s positive temperature coefficient causes its resistance to rise with level, automatically keeping THD low. Current, not rated voltage, is the key—20 mA lamps track audio-range changes smoothly [Elektroda, ^ToM^, post #20642550]

Which bulbs are suitable and which should I avoid?

Choose miniature incandescent lamps rated 5–20 mA, 12–24 V. Examples: exchange-lamp 24 V/20 mA [Elektroda, Krzysztof Kamienski, post #20678044] Avoid LED, neon or high-current automotive bulbs; their resistance change is too abrupt and adds distortion.

Can I replace the lamp circuit with an ICL8038 or modern DDS?

Yes. An ICL8038 gives sine, square and triangle up to 100 kHz with <1 % THD, but needs more parts and a split ± supply. Modern DDS modules (e.g., AD9833) add digital tuning yet cost ~8 € [Analog Devices AD9833 datasheet].

How do I etch the PCB with sodium persulfate?

  1. Heat the persulfate bath to 50 °C using sunlight or a 60 W bulb. 2. Immerse copper-clad board; agitate every 5 min. 3. After 40 min the unwanted copper is gone—rinse and dry [Elektroda, żarówka rtęciowa, post #20641443]

Is the plastic front panel safe at mains potentials?

The panel is ABS, an insulating material with breakdown strength ≈ 16 kV/mm, so accidental contact with the earthed BNC shell poses minimal shock risk [Elektroda, żarówka rtęciowa, post #20647191]

What output level and distortion should I expect?

With the TL082 buffer the generator delivers 0–4 Vrms into ≥10 kΩ. Users report “almost immeasurable” distortion—typically under 0.1 % for Wien bridges using lamp stabilisation [Elektroda, pikarel, post #20642995]

How much time and money does this project require?

Using recycled sheet metal and scavenged parts, material outlay stayed around 12 PLN, and sourcing scarce components stretched build time to roughly one year [Elektroda, żarówka rtęciowa, post #20641443]
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