Bosch Condenser Tumble Dryer: Comparing WTW85460PL Heat Pump Model and Conventional Options

Since I used this thread when deciding which dryer to choose, I will write something from myself after two months of use.
As probably most of those who read this whole thread, I had a dilemma whether to buy with a PC or without. For over four years I have installed an air heat pump to heat my home, so this technology did not scare me ... until I watched the films on YT where guests 2-3 years old PC dryers disassemble into small pieces to clean the exchangers by washing with pressure washers ! Even LG with its self-cleaning system undressed because the heat pump was full of fluff. I decided that the heat pump is good, but in the refrigerator, air conditioner or home heating, not in the dryer.

Cautions that I will be drying clothes in boiling water in an ordinary condensing heater, I considered it exaggerated and now I can see that @freebsd has clearly dealt with this myth by inserting a film with measurements with a thermal imaging camera. For two months of use, I also did not notice that my clothes shriveled, but just in case, we dry the more delicate ones with the "delicate" button turned on because in this dryer what I have, you can do it. There is a separate "delicate" program and the option to add "delicate" to most of the programs. Then the drying time is longer because it lowers the temperature, but the final drying time depends on the decision of the humidity sensor because there are different weights of the loads.
As I have already decided that I am buying without a heat pump, it turned out that in practice only three models are available now, because it is already a dying species and in 200,000. In the city, no store has stocked even a single piece of any model without a PC. All sellers say that now it only makes sense with a heat pump, and when I said that I don't want to, they looked at it with pity. So the internet remained and in February 2022 only these models were available:
BOSCH WTN86203PL
Electrolux EW6C428WP
KERNAU KFD 812 W

I will write immediately that the argument of higher energy consumption for me was not taken into account at all because I have photovoltaics and theoretically I have an excess of free energy, and if I do not burn it, I will be lost at PGE. I understand that for some people this is an argument for PC, but it all depends on how much you dry. In my case, with two people, I have two drying sessions per week, so even if I did not have PV, in the second tariff it would be PLN 6 cheaper per month, drying with a heat pump, so the matter is negligible.

Kernau is a Polish brand produced in Turkey, the cheapest of them but also the least opinion. I only watched the heat pump models that this Turkish factory produces for different brands and you can stick to some things there, e.g. the lack of gaskets on the filter in the door. If the more expensive PC models do not have such gaskets, I assumed that the cheap model without a PC will not have them. In addition, the motor is an ordinary brush motor, but they added drum lighting.

I have not seen Bosch live either, but I was eliminated for the lack of reverse rotation, no change in the direction of door opening and the signal to end the program, which cannot be turned off and reportedly tears all the time after the end of the cycle, at least that's what people write in their opinions.

I chose Electrolux, which, just like Bosch, has a brushless motor, reversible speed and a folded door, and the signal beeps and turns off.
Electrolux and Kernau have a galvanized (galvanized) tank which I was a bit afraid of it would scratch from the locks but so far after two months there is no scratch. Bosch does not give information, but I saw higher models with PC and they were galvanized too, so I assume that the lower model without a PC also has a galvanization.

As for the use, I am surprised by the good filtration of the filter in the door in this electrolux, it is single, and yet it catches great, which may be due to the fact that there are gaskets (probably also in bosch) because in many PC dryers that I have seen in stores it there were no seals.
Absolutely just in case, because in this dryer the exchanger is pulled out and rinsed with water in the shower, I gave additional filtration right behind the door filter. The air duct that leads to the exchanger is there so profiled that you ask to insert an additional sponge with open cells there so that it does not choke the flow and catches what the first filter will not catch. I saw that some PC electroluxes put sponges in an additional frame in front of the exchanger itself, so probably the air duct is differently profiled there, but it would be strange due to the economics of production of the elements?

Yesterday I took out the exchanger for cleaning for the first time after two months and there was ONE fluff visible and maybe some others that I was not able to notice. I rinsed the exchanger in the shower. The entire cleaning took 3 minutes, of which I looked into the exchanger chamber for a minute and looked at the exchanger The exchanger chamber was perfectly clean.
I also took my extra sponge out of the filter chamber in the door and there was a bit of fluff on the surface of the sponge that rinsed off nicely in the shower.

So for now, I am satisfied, but everyone has to decide for themselves whether they want to have a heat pump that is fashionable now, or peace of mind
Aaa ... my clothes are also soft and they smell too

glover wrote:

now I can see that @freebsd has unequivocally dealt with this myth by inserting a video with measurements with a thermal imaging camera.

The myth (@freebsd) is probably what he created. In the 18s of his film, there is information that in PC dryers the temperature reaches 100 * C - which is nonsense. I took measurements in my PC by throwing a UT330 into the drum and the temperature as measured for a 5 kg load did not exceed 44 * C
-> Link
BTW: I wonder what the emissivity @freebsd had on the camera.

PiotrekD wrote:

The myth (@freebsd) is probably what he created. In the 18s of his film, there is information that in PC dryers the temperature reaches 100 * C - which is nonsense. I took measurements in my PC by throwing a UT330 into the drum and the temperature as measured for a 5 kg load did not exceed 44 * C
-> Link
BTW: I wonder what the emissivity @ freebsd had on the camera.

According to you, "myth" and "nonsense" - you have to satisfy your curiosity yourself

freebsd wrote:

According to you, "myth" and "nonsense" - you have to satisfy your curiosity yourself

What is there to satisfy, the factor probably from the "cap" as the conclusions drawn in the prepared film

Hi,

The dryer just broke after 2.5 years of use - it was with a heat pump.
I'd rather be buying without a heat pump now - but I have a question.
doesn't this condenser dryer blow warm and humid air out of it? I have a bit of poor ventilation in the room where the dryer is located.

Thank you very much for your help and advice

The increase in energy prices forced me to verify the purchase assumptions ... here are the results:

I compared 2 dryers, LCC analysis. I don't have PV so I buy all the energy.

The capital expenditure of both variants was similar, with an 1800 pump, without a 1700 zet pump.

I do a lot of washing, I have a lot of drying, I take on 250 dryings a year.
Dryers energy consumption per cycle: 1.93 kWh / cycle with pump, 4.81 kWh / cycle without pump.
Electricity price and distribution fee: PLN 0.66 / kWh gross now - for the analysis I used PLN 1 / kWh (there will be increases in electricity and distribution fee).
The discount rate was 10%.

LCC after 2 years: Susz_pump = PLN 2900, Susz_bezpompy = PLN 4400 - a difference of PLN 1500.
LCC after 3 years: Susz_pompa = PLN 3,500, Susz_bezpompy = PLN 6,000

Conclusion for me - I buy the cheapest one with a heat pump and insure it for 5 years ...

I do not take into account that when taking things out of the dryer I do not iron them ... 1 hour ironing is 2 kWh ... we ironed this much during the week :)

It would be useful to know which heat pump dryers are the least unreliable - who will tell you?
Elektrolux? Bosch? Siemens? Samsung? - someone working on the site may know the answer to this topic.
is it roulette?

TomekkGe wrote:

Dryers energy consumption per cycle: 1.93 kWh / cycle with pump, 4.81 kWh / cycle without pump.

The pump may roughly have such consumption per cycle (depending on what else will be dried), but for the heater, this consumption is divorced from reality (this will be more or less for two cycles).

mrice wrote:

TomekkGe wrote:

Dryers energy consumption per cycle: 1.93 kWh / cycle with pump, 4.81 kWh / cycle without pump.

The pump may roughly have such consumption per cycle (depending on what else will be dried), but for the heater, this consumption is divorced from reality (this will be more or less for two cycles).

I took the consumption data from a popular network ...
data, regardless of the power network, are:
- for a dryer with a heat pump, about 1-1.5 kWh per cycle
- for without a heat pump over 4 kWh.

And what real values to take? dryer for 8 kg.
will be happy to update the results.

TomekkGe wrote:

I took the consumption data from a popular network ...

I congratulate you. Always the details are super true ....

TomekkGe wrote:

And what real values to take? dryer for 8 kg.

Roughly on the part of the manufacturer, but it will not be true anyway, because each batch is dried at a different time. Heaters do it much faster (sometimes even twice as fast) than pumps.

The only way to get real data is to perform two dryings of an identical charge on the respective devices under a watt-meter or other measuring device.

mrice wrote:

The only way to get real data is to perform two dryings of an identical charge on the respective devices under a watt-meter or other measuring device.

maybe someone can make such measurements?
there are many energy meters in the socket - quite popular for around 50 zlotys ;)

maybe such counters are owned by the owners of dryers - this theme is quite popular
will be happy to update the results

the times of expensive energy are coming - you have to think about what to buy
something that is economical and can fall in 3-4 years or something that is expensive to run but reliable?
I will buy something reliable and pay a lot of money for energy every year? for many years because it won't break for me

TomekkGe wrote:

maybe someone can make such measurements?
there are many energy meters in the socket - quite popular for around 50 zlotys

No problem, you can buy it, send it to me, I will take you measurements of the power-hungry heater I bought a year ago. :lol:

TomekkGe wrote:

something that is economical and may fall in 3-4 years

Rather, 5-6 years and a large service will need to be done.

TomekkGe wrote:

or something that is expensive to operate but reliable?

You start to think well

TomekkGe wrote:

will I buy something reliable and pay a lot of money for energy every year?

Well, if you do not earn PLN 20,000 a month, let go with bags

mrice wrote:

TomekkGe wrote:

something that is economical and may fall in 3-4 years

Rather, 5-6 years and a large service will need to be done.

I lost the dryer after 2 years and 3 months
that's not fair and i'm super pissed
maybe I chose the wrong brand ...

who will reveal the secret of the most reliable pump dryer ... 8 kg of load

I don't have my energy, I do a lot of dry-ups and I don't want to pay big energy bills
if she was only 5 years old - the one with the heat pump - it would be great to take it blind

TomekkGe wrote:

who will reveal the secret of the most reliable pump dryer ... 8 kg of load

Bosch Auto Clean tested. The exchanger looks like new after two years.
Cleaning the filter once in a while, I do it every 6-8 dryings. Filter and lint are wet all the time. In addition, higher-class equipment, i.e. a quiet, illuminated drum, etc.

Borutka wrote:

TomekkGe wrote:

who will reveal the secret of the most reliable pump dryer ... 8 kg of load

Bosch Auto Clean tested.

I looked at the price - about 4000 zet
actually a higher financial shelf ;)

maybe someone has tested a slightly cheaper model

TomekkGe wrote:

Borutka wrote:

TomekkGe wrote:

who will reveal the secret of the most reliable pump dryer ... 8 kg of load

Bosch Auto Clean tested.

I looked at the price - about 4,000 zet
actually a higher financial shelf ;)

maybe someone has tested a slightly cheaper model

If the purchase is not urgent, Bosch did promotional campaigns in autumn and paid extra PLN 500. In addition, a night discount in a supermarket and I bought two, year after year.
With traditional cleaning, for example Bosch series 4, you need to clean it regularly and there is no reason for it to break down.

Borutka wrote:

must be cleaned regularly and there is no reason it should break.

about 6 years and the exchanger will be cleaning anyway, no matter if it has selfcleaning or not.

Borutka wrote:

If the purchase is not urgent, Bosch did promotional campaigns in autumn and paid extra PLN 500. In addition, a night discount in a supermarket and I bought two, year after year.
With traditional cleaning, for example Bosch series 4, you need to clean it regularly and there is no reason for it to break down.

urgent purchase end of August / beginning of September
but I will not spend 4,000 on a dryer anyway - I do not have such a budget :(

max is 2 -2.5 thousand - is there any compromise in this money with Bosch
something someone can suggest?

Report after even 4 years of using the Bosch WTG86400PL Serie 6 Avantixx dryer. The choice of a model without a heat pump was the result of reading this thread.
- dryer used practically every day, because we have two small children, at the time of purchase, they were 2 and 4 years old, so there was a lot of drying (you can use some service combination to pull out the cycle counter to confirm - I'm curious?)
- 0 failures, 0 errors
- filter cleaned after each drying, heat exchanger cleaned on average every 2 months
- dryer in a small room ~ 3.5 m2, a typical laundry room
- the most used program is MIX, which lasts 57 minutes. Sometimes the dryer was used 3 times a day (alternating washing and drying). Of course, we tried to take some breaks to let it cool down a bit and the room to air out.
- I did not pay attention to the electricity bills, it did not increase drastically because I would have noticed
- I am now going to connect a consumption meter for 3 months (it will be the 3rd child, so the exploitation will even increase)
- oh, the "touch" panel works all the time, all the icons are lit, everything works

May it continue with failure-free and speed / efficiency of drying.

@shyhan777 My dryer uses electricity: https://youtube.com/shorts/Ths8YDRpFjk
I can subscribe to my colleague's description, it is similar for me.
Dryer bought in 2014, no breakdowns or problems.

WTG86400PL - energy class B - annual electricity consumption - 561 kWh
WTW876E0PL - energy class A +++ - annual electricity consumption - 177 kWh
You can see the difference (these are manufacturer data) - unfortunately there is also a significant difference in price, which may not compensate for the profits from electricity.

Like my colleague above, I calculated the electricity consumption of my dryer for the last 12 months.
Hoover clothes dryer, class B.

According to data from Tuya smart home.
(I wrote down the data from this video https://youtube.com/shorts/Ths8YDRpFjk and always rounded up.)
2022:
Month 8: 21
Month 7: 25
Month 6: 23
Month 5: 19
Month 4: 19
Month 3: 11
Month 2: 25
Month 1: 13
2021:
Month 12: 21
Month 11: 21
Month 10: 23
Month 9: 21
21 + 25 + 23 + 19 + 19 + 11 + 25 + 13 + 21 + 21 + 23 + 21 = 242

So the latest data on electricity consumption for 12 months. is 242 kWh.

I did similar research in 2015 with the same dryer: https://jackiewiczowie.blogspot.com/2015/01/zuzycie-pradu-przez-suszarke-do-ubran-i.html
Then I collected data for two months and estimated the annual energy consumption at 227 kWh. In my opinion, a quite good estimate after its correlation with the data recorded by smart home.

I cited the manufacturer's data. I do not know the method of measuring and the number of washes. However, what can be seen is that the heat pump dryer uses 3 times less energy.

krzbor wrote:

I cited the manufacturer's data. I do not know the method of measuring and the number of washes. However, what can be seen is that the heat pump dryer uses 3 times less energy.

I was hoping it was real data, not marketing.

freebsd wrote:

I was hoping it was real data, not marketing data.

Of course, the reality will verify the marketing and real data, and this is influenced by many factors and it will never match those made on paper ...

krzbor wrote:

heat pump dryer uses 3 times less energy.

I absolutely do not agree with that, yes, my two heat pump dryers used less electricity, but by a maximum of 1/3. Three times less is a far-fetched result. Oh, I had these dryers from BSH, one used one fell after a year, the other one I bought broke out exactly after the warranty ended. Before, I had an ordinary Siemens, which still works for my wife's friend, now I bought a used Miele and no one will ever persuade me to these pseudo-ecological inventions.

Mine with the heat pump is still working, but in January it will only be 3 years old. However, I would like to emphasize that it is not about an "invention for heating" such as a heat pump. It is about the entire drying process, or rather condensation. If, for effective condensation in an ordinary dryer, we need, say, a 30-degree difference, then at an ambient temperature of 25 degrees and a condenser of 30 degrees at the input, we need a pair of 60 degrees Celsius - this will also be the drying temperature - a lot for me.
And now the heat pump - let's assume the cold end is 5 degrees and the condenser can be kept at 10 degrees. We add the same 30 degrees to it and we have a steam temperature at the entrance of 40 degrees - this is also the drying temperature.
The entered values are quite approximate - I presented them to show the profits from the heat pump - it is not only a "cheaper heater", but the whole process using both the cold and hot side.
I do not know where this legendary failure rate comes from - the technology itself is not a failure - for example, air conditioners work for many years.

krzbor wrote:

at the entrance we need a pair of 60 degrees Celsius - this will also be the drying temperature - a lot for me.

Take measurements of the drying temperature of the pump. The vast majority of dryers with pumps that I had at the workshop finished drying at a temperature of about 65 degrees.

krzbor wrote:

The entered values are purely indicative - I presented them to show the benefits of the heat pump

Unfortunately, this is some kind of your assumption and is not entirely consistent with reality.

krzbor wrote:

I do not know where this legendary failure rate comes from - the technology itself is not a failure - for example, air conditioners work for many years.

The failure rate is a relative thing and it depends on which one you get. One will die after a few years, the other will work and 15. A heat pump dryer has one disadvantage, on average once every 506 years it requires serious demolition and cleaning of the exchanger, because it tends to clog and I know from experience that no additional filters help .

As for air conditioners, the fact that they are used for many years does not mean that they do not break down, while the air conditioner is a more expensive device and the owner will repair it more willingly than a cheap home appliance.

mrice wrote:

Unfortunately, this is some kind of your assumption and is not entirely consistent with reality.

I see you have experience as a practitioner - can you elaborate on the quoted passage? I mean, what is reality like?

We can compare two specific devices. Comparing and discussing the superiority of the pump over the heater is like an age-old discussion of the superiority of LPG over oil.

Pumps inherently dry much longer than heaters. The compressor runs almost all the time during the dryer operation, the heaters in an intermittent cycle. Another dark aspect is the exchanger / condenser that over time is easily removed and washed with the heater, and it is impossible to remove the goodness in the pump, which over time reduces its efficiency and extends the work cycle.
On average, every 5-6 years you have to add the potential cost of the service in terms of cleaning the exchanger, and it is not cheap either, because a lot of work on it.
When you have dryers in stock, always test them with two wet towels. Pumps usually take 2-3 hours to dry (wet, hand-wrung). The heater will do something like that in an hour or so, maybe a bit more to do it.

If you want to get a real comparison, you need two brotherly designed dryers, one on the pump, the other with a heater, and dry an identically prepared load, e.g. the same two towels spun in the same washing machine.

In addition, it must also be taken into account that the same laundry can be spun in the washing machine sometimes better, sometimes worse, it is enough to arrange it differently and the drying time will change again.

The data provided by the manufacturer is the catalog fuel consumption given by car manufacturers, the reality is that it is nowhere to be found.

mrice wrote:

krzbor wrote:

at the entrance we need a pair of 60 degrees Celsius - this will also be the drying temperature - a lot for me.

Take measurements of the drying temperature of the pump. The vast majority of dryers with pumps that I had at the workshop finished drying at a temperature of about 65 degrees.

krzbor wrote:

The entered values are purely indicative - I presented them to show the benefits of the heat pump

Unfortunately, this is some kind of your assumption and is not entirely consistent with reality.

krzbor wrote:

I do not know where this legendary failure rate comes from - the technology itself is not a failure - for example, air conditioners work for many years.

The failure rate is a relative thing and it depends on which one you get. One will die after a few years, the other will work and 15. A heat pump dryer has one disadvantage, on average once every 506 years it requires serious demolition and cleaning of the exchanger, because it tends to clog and I know from experience that no additional filters help .

As for air conditioners, the fact that they are used for many years does not mean that they do not break down, while the air conditioner is a more expensive device and the owner will repair it more willingly than a cheap home appliance.

As suggested, I took measurements - "cotton" program "cupboard drying +1"
Drying in my pump dryer takes a long time - the laundry was dried for 3h52min. During the first 3h20min the temperature was about 30 ° C +/- 2 ° C - I made 8 measurements with a pyrometer. At the end the temperature rose to 34 degrees Celsius. C and drying is over.
As you can see, during the entire drying process, the temperature never exceeded the temperature of the human body. Thus, such a dryer is very safe for clothes, apart from the problem of long "grinding".
I also calculated the efficiency of such drying - the dryer used 1.413kWh during drying. I weighed the wash before and after - 1.710 kg of water was evaporated, which gives the efficiency 0.826 kWh per kg (liter) of evaporated water.
This is quite a good result - the heat of vaporization of the water is 0.627kWh / kg, which means that this is the amount of energy needed to dry the laundry on ropes. During the heating season, this heat is taken from the heating of the room. My dryer heats up the room and I think more than the missing 0.340kWh. Obviously, outside the heating season, this is a waste of thermal energy.
I am curious about the drying efficiency of others (kWh / kg (water)) - if you can, please provide your results. I am also interested in the drying temperature - I "shot" that it was 40 degrees C for me - it turned out to be even less.