Let me summarise : this is not a faddish procedure as suggested by the author, and playing with hydrogen in this way is potentially dangerous. There are people and institutions that say that such inhalation may have advantages but this has not yet been confirmed by a peer-reviewed and reproducible scientific method (sufficient sample size, sufficient time, reliable and well-measured parameters and at least one other institution that repeats the same research cycle obtaining the same or very similar effects).
DYI interesting though sense and safety full of alarms.
As temperature increases, the solubility of oxygen decreases (e.g. at 0°C 14.6 mg O2/dm³ dissolves, and at 20°C only 9.1 mg O2/dm³)
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Under standard conditions (room temperature and standard atmospheric pressure), the solubility of hydrogen in water is about 1.6 mg/L.
Oxygen and hydrogen dissolve "almost" the same in water but it is the "almost" that makes the difference.
Many years ago as a civilian I took a job at an institution as an "electronics technician" . My duties included, among other things, looking after two battery rooms of 48V and 60V and, once a week, firing up the generator providing emergency power to the battery room. I never once smelt hydrogen sulphide, or H2S, which smelt like rotting eggs, but there was a peculiar odour in the battery rooms caused by the aerosolised electrolyte rising from the gassing batteries.
I also witnessed the explosion of a charged battery in a car workshop when a worker used an angle grinder and a spark fell where it shouldn't have. The bang and electrolyte dripping from the 4.5m ceiling
It is always possible to use the solutions described to produce hydrogen.... it would be interesting to store RES energy in the form of hydrogen and recover it later - unfortunately hydrogen is nasty....
>>21266884 Pfff.... and have you forgotten that hydrogen is several times lighter than oxygen? That's why I wrote about molar solubility, because you can see that, once again, electronics specialists want to do the job of bio-chem specialists....
Not once did I smell hydrogen sulphide or H2S with the smell of rotting eggs while in the battery rooms there was a specific smell caused by the aerosolised electrolyte rising from the gassing batteries.
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So you smelled yourself don't know what, but it certainly wasn't hydrogen sulphide?
bratHanki wrote:
I also witnessed the explosion of a charged battery in a car workshop when a worker used an angle grinder and a spark fell where it shouldn't have. Rumble and electrolyte dripping from the ceiling at 4.5m
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And the windows in the surrounding buildings didn't fall out?
A few months ago, a trolley operator mistakenly blew up the cell of a 640Ah traction battery - just a loud crack, clothes splashed with electrolyte - he didn't look, and the automatic charger hadn't finished charging yet, he tried to unplug the battery from it "under current" - even though the instructions on the wall pictorially forbade it. Neither injured him with shrapnel nor splashed everything around with acid. The volume where the 02-H2 mixture can accumulate is several dozen cm3 of the cell chamber, between the plates and the lid. That is, maybe 20 - 30 cm3, depending on the size of the battery - even taking into account the high combustion energy, the force of such an explosion is barely enough to damage the plastic casing.
Such inhalations are used in the Salveo dispensary (they have offices in Silesia). I do not know where they get the hydrogen from, but it is probably well purified. In the case of homemade methods, I would be afraid of radicals (supposedly they cleanse the body, but probably also the outside), strange ions in the air, organic pollutants or oxides from the electrodes.
I remember playing with hydrogen since late primary school. Only that it was contaminated. It was formed from the realisation of sodium base with aluminium foil. Hydrochloric acid and hydrofluoric acid worked even more interestingly. Of course it was fun to shoot PET bottles and controlled explosions igniting dirty hydrogen. Then I made it by electrolysis
You haven't been. Otherwise you would know that it stinks of rotten eggs - i.e. hydrogen sulphide fumes. And that's one of the main factors why you shouldn't charge your batteries at home. The likelihood of blowing up your house with hydrogen is practically zero, but the likelihood of inhaling acid fumes is high.
Are you sure you know what you are writing about? We are talking about hydrogen and not odour.
And are you sure you have been to the battery room? It could have been that you got the wrong door and ended up in the sewage pumping station or just the loo?
The possibility of an explosion occurring when charging a battery is huge and this is written by every manufacturer in the instructions that come with the battery.
Show any credible sources saying that hydrogen sulphide emitted is a greater danger than hydrogen.
The possibility of an explosion occurring while charging a battery is enormous and this is written by every manufacturer in the instructions supplied with the battery.
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Only that in order for this "explosion" to occur, extreme carelessness/foolishness has to be demonstrated, while harmful corrosive vapours are emitted without any special treatment.
acctr wrote:
Provide any reliable sources saying that emitted hydrogen sulphide is a greater danger than hydrogen.
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And what else does it have to show you? You have insisted on this hydrogen explosion like some on the presence of TNT on board the Tupolev. Why do you think most cars, have batteries outside the passenger compartment?
>>21267039 Yeah, from Czestochowa, after all, every tinsmith is wrecking such a site
https://anev.com.pl/ and issues CEs for their products
Leaving aside the real efficacy, this colleague's comment seems very hasty, to say the least.
@acctr - hydrogen is "only" explosive, hydrogen sulphide is flammable, but it is also highly toxic and does not need an energy initiator to act on the human body like hydrogen to explode. Batteries are made so that hydrogen and oxygen from electrolysis reunite instead of escaping. This trick will not work on hydrogen sulphide.
And what else should it show you? You have insisted on this hydrogen explosion like some on the presence of TNT on board the Tupolev. Why do you think most cars, have batteries outside the passenger compartment?
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All you need to do is prove the greater harm of hydrogen sulphide than hydrogen when charging a battery, something more than that it stinks. So far you have shown nothing, only your dramatic ignorance.
tronics wrote:
Batteries are made so that hydrogen and oxygen from electrolysis recombine instead of escaping.
prove the greater harm of hydrogen sulphide than hydrogen when charging a battery
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I don't feel the need to prove anything. Hydrogen sulphide is poisonous, as is airborne sulphuric acid vapour. For hydrogen to explode, two conditions must be met - its content in the oxygen/air mixture must be high enough (for hydrogen the DGW value is 4.1%) to exceed the flammability limit of the mixture - quite a lot, which is difficult to achieve due to the lightness of this gas and therefore its volatility, and the second condition is that ignition must be initiated. In order for the cell to explode, you have to cause ignition in the immediate vicinity of the relief valve/cork - the flame is sucked in, where pressure builds up and explosive combustion occurs.
Taaa, from Czestochowa, eventually, every tinsmith will wrap up such a site
https://anev.com.pl/ and issues CEs for their products
Leaving aside the real effectiveness, this colleague's comment seems very premature, to say the least.
Now check yourself the rules for issuing CE marks.
And don't be surprised if it's the manufacturer himself who issues it after independently establishing that the device is safe.
And the mark applies specifically to the device and its operation.
And whether the product made by that device is safe and compatible for medical use is another story.
>>21267128 I don't know who taught your colleague chemistry, but he blew it. Consider how it happens that water dissociates in a plant where both hydrogen and oxygen are formed, and it doesn't explode. And the oxygen wanders off and the hydrogen is used to build the simplest sugars. The same is true of fuel cells. And finally, the catalytic recombiner works without explosion.
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katalityczny_rekombinator_wodoru Is it really worth going into this further and forming an unnecessarily unflattering opinion?
@K3 -
Quote:
Now check yourself the rules for issuing CE marks
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And I am perfectly familiar with these rules, what specifically are you drinking to? Because you were writing about some tinsmith, and here you have clearly shot through and want to trifle with CE? The company has been in operation for at least 2019, so 5 years, do you think that no one would be interested if the CE had been issued on the spur of the moment and products were placed on the market that did not meet the listed regulations? Do you have proof of this or are you still shooting blanks?
PEM fuel cells are not used to produce hydrogen, only to produce electricity. And hydrogen is obtained from electrolysis.
Probably what was meant was a polymer electrolyte membrane (PEM) electrolyser. It is precisely such an electrolyser that uses chemically pure water that the Author writes about.
Thank you to the user for the reports of explosive mixture in the lungs.
According to the author's quick calculations and assumptions i.e. production of 150ml/min, with an inhalation frequency of 12-20min, inhaling an adult to 500ml, the hydrogen concentration will be 2%, this seems below the explosive limit (4%). This is at least as much as comes out.
The topic is very controversial and there is pressure for me to refer it to the Bin.
Just why can't we leave the topic for free discussion and expression? Why should we censor?
Facebook recently admitted that it unnecessarily censored opinions about Covid-19.
You couldn't write a bad word about vaccines either. It seems to me that the drive for censorship is too strong on the internet lately.
And the design of obtaining hydrogen itself is correct and actually interesting to me in terms of using cheap intermediates.
I am only judging in terms of the design and electronics, not the application itself.
I still remember when full constructions and schematics of scientifically very controversial constructions sometimes appeared in the electronic press and there was no such problem.
There were also the socially damaging and utterly pointless 'pips bullies', do old electronic engineers remember?
Everyone knew and focused then on the design itself, the science of how something was generated and made. There was no censorship drive.
And if someone wants to take a whiff, that's their business and their placebo.
I don't know who taught chemistry to a colleague, but he blew it. Consider how it happens that water dissociates in a plant where both hydrogen and oxygen are formed, and it doesn't explode. And the oxygen wanders off and the hydrogen is used to build the simplest sugars. The same is true of fuel cells. And finally, the catalytic recombiner works without explosion.
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katalityczny_rekombinator_wodoru Is it really worth wading into this further and forming an unnecessarily unflattering opinion?
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Do you distinguish between water electrolysis and H and O synthesis? It would appear that you do not.
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This is just plain trolling as far as I can see.
I'm not going to continue the discussion with you.
gulson wrote:
Thank you to the user for the reports about the explosive mixture in the lungs.
The user who reports this has no idea about either gases or explosions.
gulson wrote:
This topic is very controversial and there is pressure for me to direct it to the Trash.
In fact, the only controversy may be 'the beneficial effects of living water'-because it either works or it doesn't. Or it works like rat ointment. But in the light of the fact that a medical doctor can have the specialisation "homeopath", then as long as the use of such an invention has no documented harmful effects then I don't see the controversy. Just a hydrogen generator - a more complicated variation of the simple electrolyser.
Today, only the biggest pharmaceutical companies can cure us.
Miracles on a stick can be seen at every turn: what is cut will grow back, what hangs down will stand up again...
What about homeopathic medicines? How do we know that homeopathic remedies have any effect on our health ? Of course, this is proven by the studies that have been commissioned, thousands of surgeries and tens of thousands of doctors have tested it and nobody has been harmed by it. And who has been helped ?
And I know these rules perfectly well, what specifically are you drinking to? Because you wrote about some tinsmith, and here you have clearly shot through and want to brill with CE? The company has been in operation for at least 2019, so 5 years, do you think that no one would be interested if the CE had been issued on the spur of the moment and products were placed on the market that did not meet the listed regulations? Do you have proof of this or are you still shooting blind?
Do you know when there is an inspection of the CE declaration? When an accident occurs, or a notification is sent.
Which in the case of such negligible production is never likely to happen.
Secondly, the CE in this case will be about operating safety and risk of shock for example.
And yes, a 'tinkerer' can deal with such a device construction.
And to make you more aware of what is involved, search for "CO2 generator". Yes such an aquarium one.
They also have CE and look nice. And they work, and they are safe.
What you are going to do with this CO2 is another matter. You can use it for your aquarium, you can start inhaling it, you can even stick it up your ass. You are only limited by your imagination. And it will still have CE, because it meets the requirements to produce CO2 safely.
Nobody here is discussing whether someone gets kicked by electricity because the device is unsafe. The discussion heated up towards the medical aspects.
And you yourself brought up that these devices have CE, in support of their miraculous medical properties.
Ba, an ordinary water heater will also have a CE mark.
It must be useful for your health, so put it in your anus. After all, something with a CE cannot harm a person....
Added after 5 [minutes]: .
Mastertech wrote:
And who was helped ?
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To those who believed. Faith alone often helps.
And if homeopathy is effective, why am I not currently stoned? After all, the water is currently contaminated with cocaine (to a very small, homeopathic degree).
Or why am I not drunk when I pour a thimbleful of alcohol into a bucket of water?
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Oxygen and hydrogen dissolve "almost" the same in water but it is "almost" that makes the difference.
Hydrogen dissolves very poorly in water (0.021 volume of hydrogen
in 1 volume of water), by weight it looks even worse.
Added after 3 [minutes]:
Mastertech wrote:
Today only the biggest pharmaceutical companies can heal us.
Well, like in one such film by probably Vega - you create a drug and then invent a disease for which it will be effective.
Do you remember from kat '90 "kosmodisk", "pimat" and similar "healing" inventions? Radiation reflecting stones, Atlantean pyramids, beetroot tablets?
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This is just plain trolling as far as I can see.
I'm not going to continue the discussion with you.
You have insisted that it is hydrogen sulphide that poses a greater danger than hydrogen when operating acid batteries and especially when charging them.
You have provided no evidence, no citation, nothing to support your assertions.
Instead, you provide a link to a recombinator, which only confirms the well-known fact that hydrogen is emitted during the charging of an acid battery and that this poses an explosion risk.
You are thus accepting a fact that you have strenuously denied - a shot in the foot.
Hahaha..... and just as I suspected... , a wave of scientist heckling was unleashed
I do not understand why you have a problem even with the nomenclature molecular or molecular when it is, the same term H2. I just chose the word molecular and not molecular. Do we need to look for some kind of second bottom here? Although, it is good that I chose it, because there was a puzzle which you solved in a flash:) It is certainly not my aim to market or promote anything. The machine is for me and I will use it.
First of all links to "shamanic sites" only in Poland, if I wanted to look for all of them in the world I would run out of pages on the forum .
https://ctkregoslupa.pl/inhalacje-wodorem-molekularnym/ Spinal Therapy Centre
in Wrocław
https://omedic.eu/terapia-wodorem/ MODERN REGENERATIVE MEDICINE OMEDIC
https://kcth.pl/2022/07/leczenie-wodorem-opinie/ Krakow Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy Centre
One could multiply without end.
I do not intend to search for publications. Perhaps they are all stretching .
But as I have already written, whoever wants to search will find it and whoever wants to negate will negate until the end, regardless of the circumstances. Something must distinguish Polish blood
Do herbs cure? - No, because science has not proven a positive effect. Do antibiotics cure ? Of course not, because they are modified and approved by pharmaceutical companies (and how to make money ), but how much damage they cause is not mentioned. For decades we were taught in school that the atom is the smallest particle and the proton, electron and neutron were supposed to be indivisible. Unfortunately, today we know from quantum physics that this is a lie and that some of the laws we were taught at school no longer work. Stress, nerves and worry kill the most, a positive attitude and faith have a healing effect, but can this be scientifically proven? In the past, when you said you believed in ufoludds, you were laughed at, but today, only the most primitive beings claim that there can be no life outside the Earth.
As for the solubility of hydrogen in water, it seems to dissolve poorly and I was also sceptical, but after 30 minutes of soaking this water (cisovianka) in a jar with hydrogen, I measured it with a meter and it turned out that its ORP (redox) was (minus)-550mV and the H2 level was 480ppb. I am not a chemist, but the results indicate that it dissolves sufficiently.
K3 wrote:
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PEM fuel cells are not used to produce hydrogen, only to produce electricity. And hydrogen is obtained from electrolysis.
Gibberish. I don't even want to comment on it.
gulson wrote:
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Interesting, they make nice cash. No one is picking on them? But it's wrong with us that the user shows how it works and what's inside.
Well that's the whole point of that's why I posted this post . I suspect that in those machines sold , the cheapest at 2k is much poorer than mine
But it's bad with us that the user shows how it works and what's inside.
It's been a long time since a flock of lawmakers who, instead of substantively addressing the subjected issue, start droning on about whether the user has the authority to do something. And already prophetic visions of lungs exploding, filled with air with a homeopathic admixture of hydrogen - normally like in an American film. Where cars explode after any collision.
I don't want to know what would happen if, as in 1999, there were such things on the portal:
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And there were such things, including the "Pirates on Air" section.
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Would that, as if Pip the Tormentor appeared in the press, but there would be an affair of various circles.
Everyone knew it was for 'educational' purposes, after all, no one was going to torment people, broadcast pirate stations, or inhale the fumes.
Everyone had their wits about them. There was simply ... freedom on the web, on usenet groups, basically everywhere....
To se ne vrati.
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It was Ed Raabe who specialised in such inventions.
The pinnacle was the presentation of a trial version of Protel - with a recipe on how to use it indefinitely (installing the OS and Protel software on an extra small HDD and reversing the date in the BIOS).
For decades we have been told in school that the atom is the smallest particle and that the proton , electron and neutron were not divisible . Unfortunately today we know from quantum physics that this is a lie and that some of the laws we were taught at school no longer work.
If you are not old enough to know this, you are not old enough.
How old are you guys? quantum mechanics was developed in 1920, which is well over 100
The discussion revolves around the construction and application of a molecular hydrogen generator, a DIY project aimed at producing hydrogen for potential health benefits. Participants express skepticism regarding the efficacy and safety of inhaling hydrogen, citing a lack of scientific validation and potential risks associated with hydrogen and oxygen mixtures. Concerns are raised about the marketing of such devices and the implications of using them for therapeutic purposes. The conversation also touches on the principles of electrolysis, the solubility of hydrogen in water, and the historical context of unconventional therapies. Some users share personal experiences and references to existing studies, while others emphasize the need for caution and scientific rigor in evaluating such technologies. Summary generated by the language model.
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