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Flash NAND Lite Memory Programmer! TSOP48

funak 386976 551
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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
  • #91 17007713
    lens-men
    Level 2  
    My developer is assembled for an hour and the price of the items is $ 15
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  • #92 17007724
    tplewa
    Level 39  
    lens-men wrote:
    My developer is assembled for an hour and the price of the items is $ 15


    But I can't see the schematic or the link to the software. However, from the forum, I conclude (if I understand correctly) that the price with adapters is $ 200.

    Anyway, the cost of part of the programmers has nothing to do with the price of the part and the complexity of the structure. Quite a nice programmer (not only for NAND) can be done using FPGA + some USB interface from Cypress. Unfortunately, software and support are still the most important here.

    The fact that I can also build a programmer for a few dollars and write software for it does not matter much to other interested parties. On the other hand, I do not have such a need because I can afford to buy a proprietary programmer (where I have good producer support) ...
  • #93 17007754
    lens-men
    Level 2  
    Schema and software do not apply. The programmer is designed to work only with nand flash. Additional adapters will be developed later.
    My nickname was banned here, Lensmen, because they got it wrong.
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  • #94 17007795
    tplewa
    Level 39  
    lens-men wrote:
    Schema and software do not apply


    Well, but if there is no schematic and software, the programmer is not worth much. On this topic, a colleague funak provides complete documentation and anyone can build a programmer.

    It's like I would paste here links to some of my YouTube videos showing devices for which I did not publish schematics :)

    However, as for the ban, it's a friend funak it does everything for free and you have to respect it whether it adds something to the software or not. He devotes his free time to it and nobody pays him for it, and apparently he doesn't want to make a commercial product out of it.
  • #95 17007796
    Freddy
    Level 43  
    lens-men wrote:
    My nickname was banned here, Lensmen, because they got it wrong.
    Then clarify it with the site administrator (gulson), and do not create another account
  • #96 17007826
    rob1
    Level 24  
    lens-men @
    "My developer is assembled for an hour and the item price is $ 15"
    that is, parts for the programmer 15USD and the price of the finished 200 USD ??
  • #97 17007942
    tplewa
    Level 39  
    rob1 wrote:
    lens-men @
    "My developer is assembled for an hour and the item price is $ 15"
    that is, parts for the programmer 15USD and the price of the finished 200 USD ??


    Well, I do not understand exactly because someone else wrote it and it was probably about the price with adapters only or just this solution. Well, we will probably not find out if it is $ 15 for the programmer or for soft and documentation because my friend got another ban.

    On the other hand, from what they write it appears that it is ZIF + Cypress, which is the simplest possible way, but without a software any programmer is not worth much ... I used to think about building hardware with very universal pin-drivers + FPGA + Cypress, but I found that it makes no sense because who will develop soft and add systems ...

    Another thing is to start building another programmer because someone does not want to add something to theirs right away - that's how I see it on average. With this approach, the project "will die a natural death" - like many similar ...
  • #98 17009197
    funak
    Level 27  
    I tried to compare the Lens-Men programmer and my NANDLite.

    The conclusions are as follows:
    NANDProger:
    - no support for "4 die" memories, i.e. those with 4 control signals, up to four separate memories in one housing
    - transmission speed according to the movie ~ 14MB / s, it's already fun to read
    - scans damaged blocks very quickly, 7 seconds all blocks, so it only reads appropriate bytes in the SpareArea area according to the layout documentation
    - according to the video, I noticed quite an important element of this programmer, consisting in the fact that it is not possible to program the NAND memory, read yes, but not write it, it is interesting
    - the program to operate the programmer so far very poor, you can not see clearly what systems it supports, but maybe the definitions of these systems are somewhere in the text file

    NANDLite:
    - supports "4 die" memories, it is very difficult to find such memories, but when using the TSOP48 adapter -> LGA52, "4 die" memories are often found
    - for me it is still 750kB / s, maybe it will change soon
    - I also have to do it at home to make this function available, currently I delete blocks and see which has not been deleted correctly, not in accordance with the specification, I will soon change and add to the Scan Memory button - this is why this function is prepared, currently inactive.
    - I do not have this problem, the programmer does much more than is traditionally expected of him, namely, it examines full status readings, records time statistics, etc.
    - my application will be developed soon, let me just dig myself out of the current classes

    Moreover, have you noticed that:
    - the signature of the Samsung K9GAG08U0E chip is not read correctly? Maybe not, but as I have spent more than a year with these memories, I know the signature of this system by heart, it is shown in the film: EC D5 84 72 E0 E0, and in my case it looks like this: EC D5 84 72 50 42 EC D5, and in the documentation says that the signature is: EC D5 84 72 50 42. I did some standardization of the signatures of the circuits, so all of them are 8 bytes. However, manufacturers give signatures from 2 to 8 bytes. The manufacturer shows that it has 6 bytes, I read the next two bytes and I have 8 bytes. Most of the memory rereads the signature, so the bytes are repeating, but for example the Toshiba has encoded additional info not found in the documentation, where this data sometimes changes. So, reading the Toshiba Memory IDs 2x in a row, we have two different signatures. However, the changes are small, usually 1-2 bits, so sometimes one chip comes under two, you need signatures.
    - the number of memory blocks shown in NANDProger is 2048, where in fact this memory has 2076 blocks, but the biggest players also had a problem with that
    - erases memory quickly, probably too fast. In total, to delete 2048 blocks according to the documentation, we need 1.5ms / block = 3 seconds, here it does in a second, but probably somewhere there is a measurement error or time, or it does not delete at all, that's why it takes so fast.
    - and at the end the LEDs are off, hmm ... but it's probably a small nuance, but how they should be, so I can assume that this threshold is not connected to the computer at all.

    To sum up, the guys must have rushed to brag about the programmer, because you can see big gaps (not to mention the PCB design, but probably every constructor will find some oversight, carelessness in another PCB designer), but let them try nonetheless.
    For my part, I am glad that an alternative is being created, because it enhances the design process, more people are sitting on it, there is competition, even more so, motivation, and the result of all these activities is a new better programmer, i.e. a tool that we are all waiting for.
  • #99 17010472
    tplewa
    Level 39  
    funak wrote:

    - for me it is still 750kB / s, maybe it will change soon


    Here, the main limitation will be the USB transmission speed. If you would also have to use something from the popular Cypress chips, in fact probably the cheapest and the easiest option to implement fast USB. It is used in many commercial programmers, SALEAE logic analyzers, USPR and many others :) Currently, you can try a newer chip that supports USB 3.0 or Z-USB FX3, etc. :) All in all, very nice circuits, but I don't know why not very popular with us (mainly used to make clones of various devices).
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  • #100 17011447
    funak
    Level 27  
    I was looking at this Z-USB FX3 chip, nice thing, actually, but only in FBGA housing which misses the point on a dual layer PCB. So I would rather head towards the FTDU FT601. But therefore, FPGA would have to go hand in hand, then the whole thing becomes large and we are already moving towards the TNM5000.

    So I currently only see a modification of the power supply to be able to adapt the NANDLite to 1.8V.
  • #101 17011990
    tplewa
    Level 39  
    In friendlier housings you have the FX2 USB 2.0 series (which already gives a lot of speed).

    http://www.cypress.com/documentation/datashee...68014a-cy7c68015a-cy7c68016a-ez-usb-fx2lp-usb

    For example, CY7C68013A used in popular cheap logic analyzers. So, you can buy it in the form of a device in China for a few pennies (perfect for testing), possibly different as you need more GPIO ...

    Probably something like this was used in the solution I am writing about lens-men

    FPGA here is not really necessary, it is more like you want to have hardware support for various algorithms that support memory - i.e. a universal programmer, etc.
  • #102 17020345
    Adewag
    Level 21  
    Na pewnym forum Lens-Men jako admin pisze:

    I offered funak to cooperate in the development or, more precisely, in finalizing his proger, he stupidly kept silent, I wrote about it on the first page, then it was decided to make my own.

    The Pole really doesn't know how to do shit.
    1. There is no English language in the software,
    2. The software tables are so stretched that it is unrealistic to see something even on a 22nd monitor.
    3. I stuffed a bunch of extra tables in the software. LUN, TARGET, etc.
    4. It is not possible to add the necessary mikruhi yourself.
    5. In short, unfinished guano like everyone else. !!
  • #103 17020769
    funak
    Level 27  
    To quote:
    tplewa wrote:

    However, as for the ban, it's a friend funak it does everything for free and you have to respect it whether it adds something to the software or not. He devotes his free time to it and nobody pays him for it, and apparently he doesn't want to make a commercial product out of it.


    Referring to the lens-men statement:

    The application has been prepared to be able to use on a computer with a resolution of min. 1366x768, and this is the resolution of my 14 "HP laptop. You don't need a 22" monitor for this. The resolution has been chosen to display all the most important information, including those that are not yet available because they are not fully tested yet.
    The application is prepared to be able to provide a large configuration possibility. This is not an ordinary read / program type programmer. This is a NAND memory diagnostic tool, all the possibilities have not been used yet.
    Memory definitions are managed centrally, however, it is possible to edit the file with signatures. It is my personal decision that all signatures pass through me. If anyone would like to know what needs to be done to have your own signatures, please contact me. I will pass the relevant knowledge.
    The programmer has been prepared in such a way that it costs as little as possible, including the possibility of self-assembly. The appropriate firmware is available without restrictions.
    The initiative of the whole project was to provide a tool to be able to easily implement the NAND memory technology without spending a lot of money on a programmer, which we will not use at the initial stage.
    In my opinion, NAND memories are very interesting and I would like more people to know their principle of operation "inside out". In the era of current SSDs, pendrives, memory cards, I consider such awareness to be very valuable, "it is on top", therefore the more of us there are, the faster we will master the problems associated with them, striving to make them as simple as known all of us memories of the NOR type.
  • #104 17020934
    Adewag
    Level 21  
    funak wrote:
    The programmer has been prepared in such a way that it costs as little as possible, including the possibility of self-assembly.
    Anything more in this topic?
  • #105 17023107
    funak
    Level 27  
    The possibility of self-assembly here is that there is a schematic, there is a processor firmware, so you can solder it together using only adapters:

    TSOP48 -> DIP48 - for NAND memory
    TQFP44 -> DIP48 - for the processor
    SSOP28 -> DIP28 - for the USB controller

    In total, there is one more option to lower the cost of assembly on your own, to add a code for USB support directly from the processor. Then the USB controller could be bypassed. I did not do this for legal reasons, but it could be possible for amateurs to update the software themselves with the USB direct function.
  • #106 17097241
    funak
    Level 27  
    Hello

    A new version of the programmer has been created.
    Slightly modified to be able to connect the miniUSB cable.

    I already have my opinion on this subject, but judge for yourself:

    Flash NAND Lite Memory Programmer! TSOP48 Flash NAND Lite Memory Programmer! TSOP48
  • #107 17130989
    Ruslan_hi
    Level 1  
    Good afternoon, I want to assemble your programmer, share a link to the file PCB.
  • #108 17131261
    funak
    Level 27  
    PCB board design is not shared.
  • #109 17147925
    funak
    Level 27  
    New version of the application: 1.0b1014.88

    + Added context menu for the File contents panel. Now you can export any memory page to a file as well as load it.
    NOTE: loading a page from a file overwrites the contents of the loaded BIN file.
    + A nice application icon has been added

    Flash NAND Lite Memory Programmer! TSOP48

    From now on, it is easier to replace pages in the BIN file, and soon it will be possible to replace individual pages directly in the NAND memory without the need to reprogram the entire memory.

    Added after 12 [minutes]:

    Meanwhile, ECC data correction algorithms have also been developed:

    - NAND_ECC_HW3_256
    - NAND_ECC_HW3_512
    - NAND_ECC_HW6_512
    - NAND_ECC_HW8_512

    I am currently creating an interactive content editor, in which the correction codes will be counted on the fly, which in connection with the direct editing of the NAND memory will become a very interesting tool.
  • #110 17190379
    acsz
    Level 16  
    I have a question:
    Is the application version 1.0b1014.88 available for download and installation on a computer not connected to the Internet?
  • #111 17191801
    1st
    Level 23  
    How can I install it at all? Windows 10 Pro 64Bit, Chrome 66.0.3359.139. I still have the message below, and it's hard to find anything on the Internet :-(
    Flash NAND Lite Memory Programmer! TSOP48
  • #112 17191892
    funak
    Level 27  
    The security is related to the lack of verification of the digital signature. I am currently using a temporary digital signature. Unfortunately, in the face of Windows 10, I will have to obtain a real digital signature. It will take a while and will cost a little.

    Meanwhile, I am putting the software in the Portable version.
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  • #113 17192091
    1st
    Level 23  
    Thank you because I fought for a long time without results ...
  • #114 17192479
    mahcin
    Level 27  
    I would not consider Win10 at all (not as a producer but as a user) because why bother? Electronics + win10 = great misunderstanding. In a few years it may change, but at the moment it is not better to buy win7 for everything? My equipment is 7 and xp and I have no problem with anything, because if it does not start on one, it works on the 2nd and there is nothing to be sorry for the producers of various equipment, just why do it uphill ;-)
  • #115 17195184
    acsz
    Level 16  
    Thank you for the Portable version.
    I had to add one more to be installed on the XP system
    .NET Framework 2.0 (x86) "dotnetfx.exe"
    link: https://www.itechtics.com/net-framework-versions-offline-installers/

    The program starts but I'm having trouble installing the drivers.
    There is no connection of the programmer with COM, no appropriate item on the list.
    There is only Com1 and Com2.
    Device manager sees "USB Serial Converter" but with an exclamation mark.
    Attempting to install the drivers in various ways has failed, although the installation message is OK and gives a ready message:
    Bus / D2XXDriver (02/24/2017 2/12/26) Ready
    VCP Driver (02/24/2017 2.12.26) Ready.
    At this point, I have a question:
    Do the included drivers support XP?
    I have tried on several different PCs.
  • #116 17201618
    funak
    Level 27  
    Hello

    Drivers can be downloaded from this page:
    http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP.htm

    On the other hand, for Windows XP, the drivers should be installed earlier, because the latest version does not support systems older than W7:
    Windows XP x32 - INF
    http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/CDM/CDM%202.08.24%20WHQL%20Certified.zip

    Windows XP x32 - EXE
    http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/CDM/CDM20824_Setup.exe

    NET Framework 2.0 x32
    http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/6/7/...58a3-759e-473e-bf8f-52154438565a/dotnetfx.exe

    NET Framework 2.0 ServicePack 2
    http://download.microsoft.com/download/c/6/e/...178-4c6c-b5f3-158ff77b1f38/NetFx20SP2_x86.exe
  • #117 17214091
    tomasz wojcicki
    Level 23  
    Something has moved with nandas to the D5500 ??
  • #118 17214304
    Adewag
    Level 21  
    tomasz wojcicki wrote:
    Something has moved with nandas to the D5500 ??


    I join the question.
  • #119 17218509
    mikrosha
    Level 10  
    will support EMMC for telefone?
  • #120 17220262
    funak
    Level 27  
    Hello

    With NANDs K9GAG08U0E for D5500 series TVs, unfortunately still stagnant.

    However, as for the question about eMMC, there is currently no support for these memories, but it is expected.

    I am currently rebuilding the NANDLite application! to handle the new functions, it will take a while for me to do so, but nevertheless expect some significant changes, I think for the better.

    Firmware update NANDLite! -R1.0 will also go hand in hand with it. Until now, this function has not been used, so when I will, of course, I will include details on how to upgrade the firmware of the programmer.

Topic summary

The discussion centers on the development and use of a low-cost Flash NAND memory programmer designed specifically for TSOP48 packaged NAND Flash chips. The programmer targets applications such as reading and programming NAND Flash from devices like flash drives, TVs, routers, and modems, offering an affordable alternative to expensive professional tools. The design includes a permanently soldered TSOP48 socket and uses an FT245 USB interface combined with an Atmel XMEGA microcontroller for flexible control and hardware timing measurements. Software development focuses on supporting various NAND Flash memory types, including multi-die ("4 die") memories, and implementing error correction algorithms such as BCH capable of correcting multiple bit errors per 512-byte sector. The NANDLite application supports reading, writing, erasing, and batch uploading of NAND dumps for analysis and algorithm improvement, including handling bad block tables (BBT) and ECC data correction. Specific NAND Flash models like Samsung K9GAG08U0E and Toshiba TC58NVG6T2FTA00 are extensively tested, especially in relation to Samsung D5500 series TVs. Challenges discussed include addressing discontinuous memory spaces, bad block management, different addressing schemes (e.g., Toshiba's additional page addressing commands), and the complexity of NAND file systems like UBIFS. The project is evolving with plans for faster data transfer rates (up to 50MB/s in future versions), improved software interface, multilingual support, and expanded memory support including eMMC in the future. Comparisons with commercial programmers such as RT809H and Lens-Men highlight differences in speed, functionality, and openness of software. The community contributes NAND dumps for analysis to enhance error correction and bad block handling algorithms. The discussion also touches on hardware considerations like the quality of Chinese TSOP48 sockets, USB driver compatibility (including Windows XP support), and the limitations of TSOP48 packaging as industry shifts toward BGA and FBGA packages, suggesting ISP programming as a future direction.
Summary generated by the language model.
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