T.amp TSA 4-1300 Power Amplifier Issue: Not Turning On, Red Diode Flashing, No Visible Damage

Easy earnings are unfortunately not. These tips are not profitable to repair for sale. I myself took 2 pieces for myself for the extensions. I fixed it and it works now, but I have in mind that you need to have a spare (or preferably several pieces) with you at the party ). Unfortunately, these amplifiers are a ticking time bomb (you never know when it will fall and you can trust them on average). As for the voltage at the output, I probably wrote earlier - for me it was caused by a failure of one of the voltage pull-up resistors at the control transistors. I do not remember which one exactly, but one of its pins was connected to the smd transistor in the above mentioned. surroundings. It's worth starting your search there.

Is there no mass for them? clip is not lit? [/ quote]

There is no shortage, all mass connections are there. As I already wrote, it is only on the previously damaged channel

Hello gentlemen!

It's been a while - did any of you fire this tip on an ordinary trafo? I mean the final modification and closing the casing. I even think about it at the cost of power.

Regards!

After all, we have already talked about an ordinary transformer: - it is not, due to the weight and size, that the power of a conventional power supply is used for this stage. The transformer itself and 50Hz rectifiers with heat sinks at this power would occupy the same volume as the current amplifier housing. Additionally, the cost of a transformer with 6 secondary windings is a considerable unit cost. The use of one supply voltage is again impossible due to the size of the heat sinks and the power losses assumed by the manufacturer. As for the power limitation: - it cannot be done in a simple way due to the lack of a schematic and SMD assembly (however, you need to change the operating points, change the protection thresholds, fan activation thresholds) and for which the 4x amplifier would be used, say 200-300W (for class AB on current heat sinks).

Hello, as for the repair, I agree 100% with the user of aaanetka, it misses the point. I bought this brick in perfect visual condition, even a trace of dust on the fans or inside, but electrically damaged. As standard, there was one channel with several end-of-line transistors, transistors in the power supply and some general cargo in their vicinity. It is true that I managed to start the power supply and the other 3 channels woke up, but I give up repairing this amplifier. As one of my colleagues wrote: a ticking bomb. If anyone is interested, I will gladly sell this amplifier for a little money. Complete, but I will not put it together, ie the motherboard sits in the housing, while two heat sinks with power amplifiers, fans, cover, etc. are removed, of course I will add them.
Maybe if it was a two-channel taste, it would be ok, and yes, it is all so packed (it is about the ends that it has to boil) There is a reason on the auction site there is so much of it. It's a pity for the money spent, unfortunately ...

A classic transformer with 4 symmetrical tappings can be used and it will work. Of course with limited power by power supply (but this will increase the reliability of the power stage - beyond the security thresholds which suck anyway).

I have it too, that is, I also managed to pick up this amplifier. My measurements show that the voltages at 230 V mains:

Auxiliary ? 35V,
1H ? 60V,
2H ? 110V,
3H ? 177V.

The frequency of the converter operation is approx. 75 kHz. Idle power consumption is about 70W. The power amplifier starts very softly, it moves smoothly on T1.5A / 250V fuses.

And as for the repair itself. Well, I was not as lucky as some people. Overall, a lot of burnt paths (all current in the power supply, power supply and control signals SG3525 and IRS2110). One channel is damaged (the whole minus branch, including switching transistors + relay and surrounding elements which were burned by the relay burning with live fire). In addition, 7815 in the preamplifier power supply and additionally 7824 in the protection system + resistors in front of the auxiliary power supply bridge (they probably served as fuses), and transistors controlling the relays (all of them are connected from one place). In the power supply, practically everything except capacitors and bridges. To be honest, I bought the amplifier only for the challenge and if it hadn't been for that, I would have missed the repair.

I started the amplifier with a separate power supply consisting of a 2x18 V 10VA transformer and a 4x24V toroid, powered by an autotransformer and an isolating transformer (occasionally in series with a 100W bulb). The isolating transformer had two functions: it was galvanically isolated from the mains, enabling measurements with an oscilloscope, and it was a "soft" power supply. In the event of a mistake, the possible effects will be much smaller. I first started the amplifier. After replacing the burned transistors (NPN and PNP branches right away, I put NJW3281G and NJW1302G-are stronger) of the relay and what it took with it, the amplifier did not work - the reason was the mentioned stabilizers, after the repair it was possible to start. Ie. the relays did not turn on the loudspeakers, although the faulty on the PCB went out (active on the front panel). After a few hours of PCB analysis, I found damaged transistors (Darlington sot-23). After the replacement, the relays started working, all the fouls went out. DC voltage

Oh, I don't know how now, but when I completed the parts, farnell turned out to be helpful.

I am sending a few photos from the repair, the drivers and other issues went new.

Hello, could anyone handle the e-mail to the producer? I can't find it anywhere, let them give a diagram, because I'll get depression

It is not possible for you to receive a diagram of this and other products from this manufacturer. This has not been the practice for a long time in the commercial world.

Many have tried to establish contact with the manufacturer - as you can see without much results. To repair the power amplifier itself (audio part), a schematic for the power amplifier from another manufacturer should be enough - RAM S series (many solutions are similar, it was useful for me when repairing it). The converter is so simple in design that if, when trying to repair, there was no general massacre there, you can easily do it without a diagram, based on what was written in the thread.

The contact is perfectly correct. Answers typical of a self-respecting producer who cares about his intellectual welfare to amateur inquiries. Normal nobody "shoots himself in the knee".
And there is enough information about this underdeveloped design in this topic.

No wonder T.AMP did not provide the schematic. He is not the owner of this project. All electronics are OEM purchased from Kobble Audio. The T.AMP has only its own housing, which is also probably made by some other external company, that's it ...
The real name of this amplifier is KB-AK4-1300

It's not exactly how you write. Usually, the project is developed by the manufacturer and commissioned by it. It is more advantageous for him if, after some time, the production company has the option of licensing the same product to another market, often on its own internal market - the agreements are different in this respect. But those who outsource and order in Chinese production plants know it well.
And the designation you provide, unfortunately, applies to the converter transformer and is analogous to other previous amplifier models.

and the schemes of this type of equipment have long been no longer available due to the marketing policy.

Gentlemen, I noticed that different boards came out and there you have to watch out for the polarity of the diodes ...

Let me summarize: - it is not worth to "pursue" the topic of repairing the equipment, which was considered by the manufacturer to be incorrectly constructed and withdrawn from production and offer. Even the last series under the guarantee was accepted for returns / returned from business entities (it was enough to have a VAT invoice). This construction is a real crap in every respect, which was already mentioned above in the topic. It has nothing to do with the construction of professional sound equipment. Why does someone need an amplifier (supposedly compact 4 channels) for which you always need to have a reserve?

kudlatyy1 wrote:

different boards and there you have to watch out for diode polarity ...

Not different boards, but the use of different elements: - these diodes probably have a protective function and in one case ordinary diodes were used, in the other - Zener ones. A common practice of "modernization" of equipment of this size, not very well proving its quality and refinement.

aaanteka wrote:

It's not exactly how you write. Usually, the project is developed by the manufacturer and commissioned by it. It is more advantageous for him if, after some time, the production company has the option of licensing the same product to another market, often on its own internal market - the agreements are different in this respect. But those who outsource and order in Chinese production plants know it well.
And the designation you provide, unfortunately, applies to the converter transformer and is analogous to other previous amplifier models.

You are wrong, we do not know 100% who the project is, but there are many indications that it is a Kobble audio device. T.amp and t.rack, the box, etc. are most likely thomanna brands. And they simply outsource the production of devices under such a logo to Chinese manufacturers (they search for the device, test, make corrections, or not). A lot of companies do it, not only in electronics.

Quote:

Not different boards, but the use of different elements: - these diodes probably have a protective function and in one case ordinary diodes were used, in the other - Zener ones.

There are different versions of the albums and that has been discussed in this topic. The role of these diodes as well.

I myself picked up 2 pcs of this amplifier. Of course, I agree 100% that it is not suitable for professional use. But for amateur use, applying a specific exploitation regime, it has a chance to work. By buying this tip for PLN 400-500, repairing it for another 200 (gratuities from a Chinaman), you can have fun. Commercially, of course, there is no chance (the parts themselves are several times more expensive, and for the work itself it would be appropriate to take another few hundred)

Q-mac wrote:

Kobble audio

Which products appeared quite recently, long after the products of the German manufacturer were on the market. So what do you think in such a "large amount" indicates this producer? Moreover, the manufacturer announced such a series of amplifiers long before they appeared on the market. and the fundamental question, have you physically seen the amplifiers that you think were first produced by the company you mentioned?

Q-mac wrote:

By buying this tip for PLN 400-500, repairing it for another 200 (gratuities from a Chinaman), you can have fun.

Costly fun and the results are poor. Who needs an amplifier with such parameters at home, even assuming the use at the level of 10-20%, this equipment is energy-consuming despite the impulse power supply not made in accordance with the applicable standards (no PFC). In addition, it can do quite a bit of damage to a typical household's power grid.
Usually, the costs of the elements in the power supply, which are usually damaged, amount to more than the 200 PLN indicated by you, assuming the use of reputable elements. Only fast rectifier bridges cost 60-80 PLN. What about the rest?
Let me just mention that long ago these amplifiers were repaired even in our country and with good results, and then the cost of such a repair oscillated around PLN 600-700. It was done by the man who previously ran the manufacturer's warranty service. The information that was previously provided by me came from him, including the weakest link of this structure that is beyond the reach of amateur repair, poor quality of the printed circuit and its damage (multi-layer pcb) in case of failure.

I have given a hypothesis, not a certainty. If you are sure of what you are saying and you can support it with something, I will return the honor immediately. If that's presumption, well, it's worth as much as mine.

I was talking about amateur use, but not home use. How does someone like to make a party for several dozen people and have the possibility to do it right away, or use it on a daily basis?

I would like to add that I repaired the amplifiers myself, not my friend.

It is even enough to check since the company registered the domain. Even at the beginning of this topic, as everyone was looking for materials, your offer did not exist. If you show a need, what prevents you from asking this company about their products?

Q-mac wrote:

If someone likes to make a party for several dozen people

Yes, and the 4x1200W amplifier. Not even the 4x300W?

aaanteka wrote:

It is even enough to check since the company registered the domain. Even at the beginning of this topic, as everyone was looking for materials, your offer did not exist. If you show a need, what prevents you from asking this company about their products?

Q-mac wrote:

If someone likes to make a party for several dozen people

Yes, and the 4x1200W amplifier. Not even the 4x300W?

So if the company does not have a domain, it does not exist? Especially since Chinese is different. And what the power, is it a lot or not enough, is a topic for a broader discussion that I do not want to engage in with my friend. It is a fact that I gave the topic specific, describing the course of the repair (I hope it will be useful to someone). A colleague complains about this construction every post. It hit me the first time. Each repetition of this is OT.

A colleague diligently avoids answering the questions asked and the arguments of pointless repair and destiny presented in them.
I am not complaining but realistically I present the shortcomings of an inept attempt to design a device. It is not enough to use proven elements in some configuration, suggesting only one of the element parameters given as the maximum value. It is not enough to take into account only correct operation only from the electronic side in the project, disregarding the actual operating conditions and the basic laws of physics. And in the construction of this amplifier all these mistakes were made. It's fair to say that this the design is actually a standard example of how devices should not be designed . This is probably clearly indicated by the fact that the manufacturer accepted the return of the last series of these amplifiers and a full refund for devices purchased even a year ago, no matter who and how they were operated and whether the amplifiers were damaged.
Oddly enough, returns equipment instead of being recycled, it ended up in Poland and is sold. Instead of paying for disposal, someone still makes money by selling garbage to unsuspecting, incorrigible amateur dreamers. I do not know if this topic has been used for this purpose for some time, promoting cheap repair options, which is not entirely true. Whoever does not believe, can easily browse this topic, for example, make a list of the elements needed for repair at current prices and verify the profitability of such a procedure.

Domain registration is crucial as it is the only form of advertising that appeared anywhere with this product before that fact. What's more, you can easily find an economic entity and its entry in the register. What's more, the equipment has not appeared in any industry catalog, on any vortal of producers and distributors of audio equipment, as well as, unlike the German product, at trade fairs here in Europe and Asia ( I am writing this based on my own experience ).

aaanteka wrote:

A colleague diligently avoids answering the questions asked and the arguments of pointless repair and destiny presented in them.
I am not complaining but realistically I present the shortcomings of an inept attempt to design a device. It is not enough to use proven elements in some configuration, suggesting only one of the element parameters given as the maximum value. It is not enough to take into account only correct operation only from the electronic side in the project, disregarding the actual operating conditions and the basic laws of physics. And in the construction of this amplifier all these mistakes were made. It's fair to say that this the design is actually a standard example of how devices should not be designed . This is probably clearly indicated by the fact that the manufacturer accepted the return of the last series of these amplifiers and a full refund for devices purchased even a year ago, no matter who and how they were operated and whether the amplifiers were damaged.
Oddly enough, returns equipment instead of being recycled, it ended up in Poland and is sold. Instead of paying for disposal, someone still makes money by selling garbage to unsuspecting, incorrigible amateur dreamers. I do not know if this topic has been used for this purpose for some time, promoting cheap repair options, which is not entirely true. Whoever does not believe, can easily browse this topic, for example, make a list of the elements needed for repair at current prices and verify the profitability of such a procedure.

Domain registration is crucial as it is the only form of advertising that appeared anywhere with this product before that fact. What's more, you can easily find an economic entity and its entry in the register. What's more, the equipment has not appeared in any industry catalog, on any vortal of producers and distributors of audio equipment, as well as, unlike the German product, at trade fairs here in Europe and Asia ( I am writing this based on my own experience ).

Why this profitability discussion?
Personally, I am very happy with this topic, I have several such amplifiers and I am happy to learn the topology of power supplies by trying to fix it, I can afford to make fireworks, so despite the financial unjustification, lifting this amplifier gives me great joy and I learn a lot from it, which it is priceless.
So please do not give an opinion here, but help us learn together Because that's what this post was made for.
Thanks to everyone for the hints.

And so for this power supply - maybe it would be worth installing a protection system? Recently, I have repaired the InterM S4000 and there is also the converter on SG3525 and it has a nice protection, maybe it could be transferred to this power supply? The current test is done by a clever transformer, the rest rather simple, what do you think?

Kind regards

Buddy, everything has been said by me and not only me on this topic:
- the repair is pointless due to a completely incorrect construction, incorrect assumptions of the constructor, misinterpretation of single border parameters detached from other elements as nominal parameters
- you can fix something that has been properly constructed and functioned properly at least once .
Modifying the system, modernizing it is no longer a repair, but a lottery of constructing something completely different, resulting from the knowledge and skills of a new designer.

Due to the system used, assembly and the degree of packing of this amplifier, modernizations are not possible - no space for new or different solutions. An example are the already mentioned Gretz fast monolithic bridges, which cannot be replaced or replaced correctly, in line with the art of designing, and replaced with single diodes.
Your statement about the use of additional protection that you indicated from another design clearly indicates that you are not familiar with the design of the subjective amplifier in this topic. After all, it has all the protections, only that it is not effective due to the design and components used. The weak link is the transformer itself, incorrectly calculated and wound up. In relation to the indicated InterM structure, it has even more of them implemented at individual stages (blocks) of the structure. ( It should be mentioned that InterM products also became infamous among acoustics - just read the reviews about this equipment. )

koziorozec wrote:

Why this profitability discussion?
I personally am very happy with this topic, I have several such amplifiers and I am happy to learn power supply topology trying to fix it , I can afford to make fireworks, so despite the financial unreasonableness of lifting this amplifier gives me great joy and learn a lot from it, which is invaluable.

You yourself, my friend, so you replied:
- you are aware of the complete irrationality of all attempts to repair the amplifier, which end up only with another damage to the newly installed components. If that's a way for you to dispose of your own funds, fine.
But do not confuse two concepts here and do not equate them:
- fun filled with free time a
- repair, effective repair restoring the amplifier to full serviceability according to the assigned standards and nominal parameters provided by the manufacturer (which, by the way, this model never achieved).

My rational, objective, and not critical approach to this design results from my practical contact with many new specimens, which from the very beginning of their proper operation showed defects and even damaged spontaneously at loads much lower than the nominal one. They also result from the knowledge of the sound market in which there is no place for this type of unreliable "inventions". To sum up, no serious, self-respecting acoustician wants to and will not use this type of equipment.
So what is the point of repairing the equipment, apart from the didactic aspect mentioned by you, of course?
Only, in my opinion, and probably every electronics, you can learn from properly designed and operating structures, based on reliable theoretical knowledge. Especially as it is a starting learning.
Hence my warnings of less experienced colleagues on this subject not to waste time and resources.

koziorozec wrote:

The current test is done by a clever transformer, the rest rather simple, what do you think

This is not a "clever transformer", but a current transformer. And this is not a study, but a typical feedback. A similar solution is commonly used in various types of power supply systems.

aaanteka wrote:

- the repair is pointless due to a completely incorrect construction, incorrect assumptions of the constructor, misinterpretation of single border parameters detached from other elements as nominal parameters
- you can fix something that has been properly constructed and functioned properly at least once.

----
How would I make a completely separate power supply for all voltages, will this end be then recommendable for events where we care about failure-free ???
Uptime is the most important thing.
If so, can you give what tension would be safe ???
P + - 30V
1H + - 62V
2H + - 125V
3H + - 188V
or maybe lower something to be safer, I don't need full power - 4x800 would be enough :)

Regards

I used to play repairing this model once, a difficult topic, but it is possible.

I also have SG3523 drivers (version with a wider housing), I can withdraw.

Ziemowit1973 wrote:

How would I make a completely separate power supply for all voltages, will this end be then recommendable for events where we care about failure-free ???

There was already about this nonsensical solution: -conventional power supply on a 230V / 50Hz transformer is the second housing such as an amplifier due to the power it must provide and its efficiency, dimensions must be appropriate. Secondly, the cost of a transformer with 6 secondary windings is an individual order or implementation associated with a significant cost. Summing up, at such a cost you can buy two decent stage amplifiers, for example on the secondary market

Ziemowit1973 wrote:

or maybe lower something to be safer, I don't need full power - 4x800 would be enough

Quite "naive reasoning", because the amplifier is made in accordance with such and not other supplies and its protection circuits, including limiter circuits, are appropriately selected. And it is still a significant power of the power supply, because you need to provide 4x800W = 3200W (3.2kW).

-DeX- wrote:

I also have SG3523 drivers (version with a wider housing), I can withdraw.

. They are generally available from domestic distributors, including the largest.