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Class A headphone amplifier

liseczq 13509 129
This content has been translated flag-pl » flag-en View the original version here.
  • #61
    User removed account
    Level 1  
  • #62
    yogi009
    Level 43  
    ramrusazer wrote:
    In a word, humanity is deaf and blind. Without measuring instruments, you will not know if there is a copy or a printout, if someone played a violin in the piece or put a brick on the keyboard


    Well, you won't know it, you won't know it without measurements and calculations :-)
  • #63
    User removed account
    Level 1  
  • #64
    CodeBoy
    Level 28  
    Once in 2008, we were bought by a Xerox printer (a big cow, I don't remember the number anymore), unfortunately it was quite expensive in the service. but the girls in the board office distinguished whether it was a copy or pressure from a pen. the copy / scan was impossible for humans to see. a few times the scan went as the original and probably still lies in some archives :)

    As for audio and sound, it is hard to disagree that the sound is also perceived with the eyes. Very often, the average amplifier from Technics or another popular company is considered top because it has wipers for the entire front. and after the backlight is broken, or worse, these wipers, it is suddenly perceived as average, which it was de facto from the beginning :)

    I have a tube amplifier, hidden in a Sony housing, and a few people know that it is a tube :) But those who do not know think that Sony is playing this way ;)
  • #65
    yogi009
    Level 43  
    CodeBoy wrote:
    I have a tube amplifier, hidden in the housing after Sony, and in total a few people know that it is a lamp but those who do not know that it is Sony that sounds like that


    This is called a conscious choice.
  • #66
    popiol667
    Level 18  
    yogi009 wrote:
    And what does that prove? That forty years ago a perfect amplifier was created and there is no point in improving anything? It's like with the Russian Lada, they created a perfect car right away and didn't fix anything for decades.


    Not Russian, but Soviet if anything. The Lada is not a perfect car, and your emotional-off-topic entries add nothing to the discussion.

    ramrusazer wrote:
    In a word, humanity is deaf and blind. Without measuring instruments, you will not know if there is a copy or a printout, if someone played a violin in the piece or put a brick on the keyboard


    My colleague understood everything upside down. No need for measuring instruments. It is enough for a blind test (no doping like knowing what's playing) to recognize when amplifier A is playing and when B is playing. Doping like measuring instruments is forbidden.

    yogi009 wrote:
    Well, you won't know it, you won't know it without measurements and calculations

    I am waiting impatiently for you to show me the proof that you can indicate which amplifier is playing without any measurements or calculations.

    ramrusazer wrote:
    "Teaches and Fun" electrode


    Rather depressing ....
  • #67
    User removed account
    Level 1  
  • #68
    conisl
    Level 10  
    Hello,

    I am looking at the photos of the amplifier and I cannot see the heat sink mounts from the power supply. Could they only stick to the legs of transistors? It seems to me that such a solution is not very strong mechanically. A slight shock is enough, for example when moving from shelf to shelf and the legs of the transistors loaded with heat sinks may bend and cause a short circuit.

    greetings
  • #69
    yogi009
    Level 43  
    I already wrote above that heat sinks are not needed in this application.
  • #70
    michald
    Level 33  
    popiol667 wrote:
    Class A is overrated, all the advantages listed by the author could be "hooked up" to the integrated, dedicated circuit working in class D.


    Class D is suitable (for big ..) to be used on stage and for those who have stepped on their ear, not to render the sound of the instruments faithful.
  • #71
    CodeBoy
    Level 28  
    michald wrote:
    popiol667 wrote:
    Class A is overrated, all the advantages listed by the author could be "hooked up" to the integrated, dedicated circuit working in class D.


    Class D is suitable (for big ..) to be used on stage and for those who have stepped on their ear, not to render the sound of the instruments faithful.


    Now, top Hi-Fi companies for thousands of $ make bricks only in D class :)
  • #72
    yogi009
    Level 43  
    CodeBoy wrote:
    Now, top Hi-Fi companies for thousands of $ make bricks only in D class


    This is actually a very painful practice.
  • #73
    michald
    Level 33  
    popiol667 wrote:
    No, it is not. Either poor hardware parameters, different conditions in which the compared hardware plays, or self-suggestion. Your statements contradict serious scientific research of human hearing. You make comparisons in a way that gives the possibility of self-suggestion and on the basis of them you draw erroneous conclusions "I hear differences".


    Buddy, there is something like faithful reproduction of the color of the sound and unfortunately you will not get it from any class D amplifier. Why? Because it results directly from the principle of operation of such a system.

    I have heard such inventions with class D on the barrels, each design sounds different (different timbre of the instruments) - for me it is a sound mutilation.

    Listen to samples of each instrument separately (preferably with DSD) to see what class D is worth
  • #74
    yogi009
    Level 43  
    It is enough to look at how the best studio preamplifiers are built, there I suggest looking for this whole class of poor D-la.
  • #75
    michald
    Level 33  
    ramrusazer wrote:
    or distorted tracks with huge compression (so that they sound well on boxed mini-towers) ...
    containing amplifiers in class D.
  • #76
    liseczq
    Level 21  
    bb84 wrote:
    romarcin wrote:
    In the event of a failure, when a shorted transistor gives a constant voltage to the converter, then the headphones.


    The problem to be bypassed with the security system of the headphones.


    Exactly - I used uPc1237 at home - it works great and protects the headphones immediately. In addition, it has some other goodies. I recommend
  • #77
    popiol667
    Level 18  
    michald wrote:
    Buddy, there is something like faithful reproduction of the color of the sound and unfortunately you will not get it from any class D amplifier.


    These are your thoughts not supported by any evidence. It makes as much sense as the statement: red cars stick to the road better. Maybe it is true in the alternative world, where only red Ferraris and green Punto Fiats drive on the roads.

    michald wrote:
    Why ? Because it results directly from the principle of operation of such a system.


    I mean what? I propose to move away from "shamanic" electronics in favor of science-based electronics. Somehow zero - one D / A converters, digital sound recording, impulse converters function in audio circuits.

    michald wrote:
    I have heard such inventions with class D on the barrels, each design sounds different (different timbre of the instruments) - for me it is a sound mutilation.


    So what if you've heard? Without a proper comparative method, these listening sessions have no meaning in supporting your thesis. And I heard a lot of tube amplifiers and each sounded different FOR ME = this damaging the sound? Anyway, according to reviews in "widely read" magazines, each amplifier for a kilo of zlotys sounds different ... More crystalline trombones withdrawn to the front, etc.

    yogi009 wrote:
    Just look at how the best studio preamps are built,


    I mean what? More than one classic studio equipment is dominated by the 4558, so without exaggeration with the poor class D and the exclusivity of A. Besides, all these preamps, compressors, limiters are often modeled on classic designs that are not completely "transparent" - they give the sound its character. Hence, in studio applications to this day you have balancing transformers, passive equalizers, etc. - solutions that are nowadays bizarre - but were used when recording many classic albums.

    yogi009 wrote:
    there I propose to look for this whole class of poor D-la.

    Just because something is cheaper doesn't mean it is worse. A switching power supply is cheaper than a transformer power supply with a linear stabilizer. You mean it's worse? Probably in the world of snobs who appreciate expensive things ...
  • #78
    CodeBoy
    Level 28  
    michald wrote:


    Listen to samples of each instrument separately (preferably with DSD) to see what class D is worth


    You say that those Top Hi-Fi companies that went into class D don't know each other? and they do crap? A bold statement :)
    Of course, we are not talking about the tip of an iPhone or other cell or other crap, but about the tips of a much larger size and refined in the smallest detail.
  • #79
    yogi009
    Level 43  
    CodeBoy wrote:
    You say that those Top Hi-Fi companies that went into class D don't know each other? and they do crap? A bold statement


    Not. These companies are counting the costs. They brought the D-class to such a level that Kowalski had no complaints. However, a comparative hearing of the two classes reveals the differences.
  • #80
    CodeBoy
    Level 28  
    yogi009 wrote:
    CodeBoy wrote:
    You say that those Top Hi-Fi companies that went into class D don't know each other? and they do crap? A bold statement


    Not. These companies are counting the costs. They brought the D-class to such a level that Kowalski had no complaints. However, a comparative hearing of the two classes reveals the differences.


    You say that in the amplifier for PLN 100k, someone wants to reduce construction costs by making the front of 4mm thick aluminum. Interesting theory :)
    It is something like that once people were afraid of cars, radio antennas etc. But that on Elka?
    Recently, a friend has such a new tip, it costs PLN 4,000 + square meters, so I do not know if it is a cheap toy.
  • #81
    yogi009
    Level 43  
    And what does price have to value? Funny constructions for a lot of money have been shown here more than once.
  • #82
    CodeBoy
    Level 28  
    yogi009 wrote:
    And what does price have to value? Funny constructions for a lot of money have been shown here more than once.


    Otherwise, because I see that you do not understand, he does not write about audiophile superstitions, but about pro constructions for musicians and recording studios.
    Whether you like it or not, class D is and will be in the world of audio. Class A is not economical in terms of eco, it takes a disproportionate amount of electricity to the output power and will be a class for wealthy people, electricity prices also in Poland go up along the exponential curve. There is nothing to cheat that the quality of today's class D, good workmanship, is indistinguishable for 99% of the people on this planet. there are even Hybrids pre tube and D-class amplifiers and I doubt that someone from this forum in a blind test said that this is class D.

    for the sake of clarity, we are talking about such a class of equipment
    https://icepower.dk/products/amplifier-power-modules/as-series/
  • #83
    popiol667
    Level 18  
    yogi009 wrote:
    However, a comparative hearing of the two classes reveals the differences.


    Ooooh, then ABX comparative auditions were done! Could you have a link to some report, how was the ABX blind test fulfilled?
  • #84
    yogi009
    Level 43  
    CodeBoy wrote:
    Class A is not economical in terms of eco, it takes a disproportionate amount of electricity to the output power and will be a class for wealthy people, electricity prices also in Poland go up along the exponential curve.


    And I thought that most of the cost was generated by the refrigerator.
  • #85
    CodeBoy
    Level 28  
    Everything is generated, but you have to use the refrigerator, and you do not have to class A :)
  • #86
    yogi009
    Level 43  
    Even if you use class A, the refrigerator will dominate the electricity bill. As for the merits. Modern, expensive class D constructions actually sound well enough for the statistical Kowalski. Agreed here. However, it cannot be said that they matched the sound quality with good class A designs. Let's just not exaggerate in either direction.
  • #87
    CodeBoy
    Level 28  
    yogi009 wrote:
    Even if you use class A, the refrigerator will dominate the electricity bill. As for the merits. Modern, expensive class D constructions actually sound well enough for the statistical Kowalski. Agreed here. However, it cannot be said that they matched the sound quality with good class A designs. Let's just not exaggerate in either direction.


    Saving money for electricity will only start, so far Poland / Poles do not feel it because electricity is cheap. When it starts to get more expensive (it is already on the European markets), you will start thinking whether I have to use something. I remember once when the heating was in a flat rate, everyone boiled as much as they could, now it is an expensive hobby and many people think how to heat a house / flat to make it cheaper.

    As for class D, I still don't think you can tell what class is playing with good equipment. It's like you want to prove that you will say after the photo whether it was made with a 10MPix or 36MPix matrix on photo paper or other printouts :) It's just that the resolution of the human ear is limited, except for outstanding individuals, but I would count them in hundreds of per mille on Earth :)
  • #88
    yogi009
    Level 43  
    CodeBoy wrote:
    ... but I would count them in hundreds of per mille on Earth


    Hundreds of alcoholic beverages are percentages :-)
  • #89
    CodeBoy
    Level 28  
    yogi009 wrote:
    CodeBoy wrote:
    ... but I would count them in hundreds of per mille on Earth


    Hundreds of alcoholic beverages are percentages :-)


    ok, you're right, it was supposed to be in per mille :)
  • #90
    michald
    Level 33  
    CodeBoy wrote:
    As for class D, I still don't think you can tell what class is playing with good equipment. It's like you want to prove that you will say after the photo whether it was made with a 10MPix or 36MPix matrix on photo paper or other printout. Simply the resolution of the human ear is limited, except for outstanding units, but I would count them in hundreds of per mille on Earth


    Tell your children about your bedtime stories.

    In class D, the sound is "created" and the quality depends on the A / C processors, power supplies and smoother filter. In class A, analog sound - the whole waveform is amplified simultaneously. You made a mistake with the AB class.